Today I’ve got an interview with J Zachary Pike, who you most likely know from his incredible book, Orconomics. It was the winner of the 4th annual Self-Published Fantasy Blog Off (300 books shall enter, only one survives), and is very likely the only example of a book that so successfully marries my nerdy obsessions with fantasy and economics. Whether you want economics satire, or you just love a good ole fashioned, D&D type fantasy romp, Orconomics is a book I’ve read and highly recommend.
AC: Hi Zack, thanks for joining me today. First, for those who are unfamiliar with your work, can you tell us a little bit about your series, The Dark Profit Saga?
JZP: Thanks for having me. Generally, I write weird stuff with a satirical twist. My main series, The Dark Profit Saga, explores a world where high fantasy meet modern capitalism with hilarious and tragic consequences. Think Lord of the Rings meets The Big Short.
AC: Economics and Satire? Let’s start with satire first. What about fantasy tropes makes them so ripe for skewering?
JZP: Fantasy and fantasy gaming give us a chance to imagine world’s unconstrained by reality, but most people generally only consider the scientific or metaphysical realities transcended, like allowing Dragons to exist or magic to be real. But a lot of the fantasy I read growing up were just as fast and loose with economics or sociology as they were with physics or biology. I think there’s a lot of fun to be had bringing those unrealistic fantasy tropes back down to earth while maintaining the more magical elements of the genre.
AC: Onto the Economics, of which I am a huge nerd about myself. Am I right thinking you wrote this with the 2008 recession in mind?
JZP: Absolutely. I had written several drafts of the central story to the Dark Profit Saga beforehand, but it was the economic crisis of 2008 that got me digging in to economics. I got hooked on understanding how the system works. And once I realized how interesting and crazy economics can be, I knew it had to be a central theme of my books.
AC: Yep, all those barely concealed Goldman Sachs references gave you away! Now that we’re popularly believed to be in another recession, do you think this one will play out differently? It’s induced by the coronavirus pandemic, of course, and so far we have not heard of any shenanigans by Wall Street, but is that because they’ve wised up and changed their act, because the governments were quicker with the bailout money, or because we haven’t heard YET?
JZP: I think this one will be different for a number of reasons; the underlying cause is a virus, not a systemic vulnerability. Many institutions are better capitalized and more transparent than they were 12 years ago, thanks to strong regulations enacted after 2008. But the systemic weakness in Europe after their debt crisis casts a long shadow, and just because the original issue wasn’t systemic doesn’t mean systemic problems won’t arise.
Honestly, I have no idea. If I knew how this was all going to play out, I’d be day trading instead of making up stories about Orcs.
AC: Economics is a fascinating field of study to me — second only to weather forecasting in accuracy and politics in bias — but when properly applied, I think the science has incredible insights into “how things work”. Behavioral economics in particular has been a big influence on my writing, and I have several books on the subject I read as reference material. What kinds of non-fiction do you read, and have you found ways to work it into your fantasy?
JZP: Honestly, I’m a news Junkie, and a lot of my nonfiction comes from reading The Washington Post, NPR, the Atlantic, etc. I also do podcasts like Planet Money and Marketplace. One nonfiction book I loved was Freakonomics, which is a fantastic blend of behavioral economics and hilarious, sometimes poignant stories. All it’s missing is dragons and wizards.
AC: I read Orconomics, and highly recommend it! It works because it’s a seamless fusion of satire and a good ole fantasy adventure story. It feels completely fresh, but we still get all of those old-school tropes that we love. Kings of the Wyld by Nicholas Eames is one of the few other books I can think of that pulled off a combination like that. Are there any books I’m missing which inspired you? Anything you’d care to recommend to me and my fans?
JZP: I’m love Eames’s writing and am actually finishing up Bloody Rose at the moment. Beyond that, I’m a massive Terry Pratchett fan – I have two Discworld illustrations up in my office. And Steve Thomas’ Mid-Lich Crisis is an indie novel that I’ve heard great things about; it’s next on my TBR.
AC: So, we come to the time in the interview everyone skips to right away! What are you working on now, and when can we expect it?
JZP: I’m working on Dragonfired, the third and final book of the Dark Profit Saga. And I tend to write slow, so… I don’t know when you can expect it. But it’ll be good when it gets here.
AC: Thank you so much for joining me today, but before we go, tell us one thing that no one knows about you?
JZP: Most people don’t suspect it because my physique is best described a “walrus-like,” but I used to be a vegetarian. I ate so many tofu burritos with bbq sauce and and guac that a local burrito joint named a special after me.
AC: A yes, the infamous Zack Attack Burrito, as it should have been called.
And that’s all I have for today. You can find Zack’s book Orconomics HERE, or head over to his website to learn more about him and his writing: https://www.jzacharypike.com.